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I was wondering what different peoples views were on sex before marriage are, and what the Bible has to say about it. Is it ok if you two as a couple make the vows of marriage together and mean it without actually going through the ceremony? This could be for a number of reasons should it be age, money, or other life circumstances? Do you have to go before the alter and spend the thousands of dollars on a wedding before you can become intimate with your significant other? Just something that I?ve dealt with and am dealing with in my life and was wondering others opinions on the subject. Also if it is a sin to do so before being married must you stop and wait?

Interesting, Dan. A friend of mine from Oman was telling me that this is still the norm in her family. Her family has chosen her grandfather to be the person who marries couples in their family.

Here’s some Scriptures to chew on
“Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry then to burn with passion” I Cor 7:8,9
“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality…” Ephesians 5:3
Deuteronomy 22 is kind of random, but talks about a betrothed woman being a virgin.
Matthew 1:18, 19 talks about Joseph intending to divorce Mary quietly because she appeared to have broken the betrothal.
Other related scriptures: I Cor 6:12-20 (the famous, everything is permissable…) , Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:4, Proverbs 5
The Deut and Matt passage refer to Jewish law. The Eph and I Cor passage speak to the importance of following the Holy Spirit’s leading and conviction (easier said than done, which is why God also puts people in our life to help keep us accountable). It seems clear for the need for purity before marriage in Jewish Law. The NT doesn’t specifically say “wait until marriage”, but I think it is God’s intention for marriage to be 1) commitment before God 2)commitment before the church 3) physical consummation.
Any one without the other two and you would be missing out on a blessing God intended.
I don’t know if that confuses or clarifies, but it’s out there now
P.S. this post is already way too long to start a book review, but Joshua Harris’ “Boy Meet’s Girl” was really encouraging and convicting for me.

“Sexual Immorality” has always been way too ambiguous of a phrase for me. I just don’t know what that means. Then again, perhaps it’s ambiguous for a reason.
I still want to bring up the fundamental difference between marriage and wedding. Jason, you mention that you think God intends for a marriage before God (I agree) and a marriage before the church (I’m not sure). How many constitute a church. Does a wedding suffice? Does less than a wedding suffice?
Again, a disclaimer. I don’t want to sound “sexually immoral” (again that phrase), but I also want to be honest with my uncomfortability with a typical church opinion that I think may be too rigid at times. I’m not condoning anything, I’m simply questioning.

Norbert,

You ask good questions and I’ll do my best with them.

Obviously I believe Adam and Eve’s marriage relationship was legitimate even if it wasn’t before a church.
And if two missionaries meet and get married in Timbuktoo without a church, I can’t see any reason against it.

God always seeks the best for his children and also what would bring Him the most glory.
God’s will is not for us (the body of Christ) to be maverick, stoic Christians. Too many Christians are afraid to be transparent to each other even when they’re hurting. Because of this, the Enemy is able to divide and conquer our churches by sniping the individual members.
This is why God desires us to be married in church. He wants it to be a celebration of love and another living breathing reminder of Christ’s relationship with the church.

I don’t know how many people validate a church wedding or what exactly is the 100% definition of marriage. Why wouldn’t I want to get married in front of the body of believers that encourages me, admonishes me and prays for me?!? Unless, of course, I didn’t like my church, which is a different matter.

As to what’s sexually immoral? I know that usually I feel conviction about sexually immoral thoughts and actions. You can tune out that conviction easily by listening to your flesh. Our hearts are deceitful above all things and I’ve done things that I thought were fine at the time, but regretted later.

Maybe God doesn’t spell it out because he wants us to seek his will. Maybe He knows that if a relationship is founded on seeking him and a desire to be pure (as opposed to doing the 12 step program to marriage and checking blocks 1-25), than it will lead to a marriage that can stand trials. So maybe it’s merciful of Him in a way to put us through this seeming torture.

I think that this is really a matter of signs and symbols and seals. I have a suitemate at college who is a relatively new Christian and has not been baptized. Right when he realized that Christ was calling him and when he embraced Christ as his Savior his adopted parents and his pastor told him that he must be baptized as soon as possible. He at the time, and still now, does not exactly understand why baptism is needed, why sacraments are needed if you believe.

I come from a reformed background and my church only holds Baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments but it seems to me that marriage is needed for the same reason baptism is a sacrament.

Marriage is a visible sign and seal of a relationship, just as baptism is sign and a seal of a commitment either by the family or by the person to bringing up or living a life in Christ. (I guess the lines are fussy here from all the debate on this subject and I hope that this discussion does not tangent in the direction of baptism.)

I think that my point is that humans need symbols. We need things to point us in the right direction. According to a pastor that has done much thinking upon this subject their are certain things that need to be in place before sex. Sex is one culmination or reward of a relationship that has trust, honor, respect, love, and marriage. Marriage being important because of its quality as a visual representation of a relationship based in Christ.

Then again we could discuss why symbols are important, but hopefully you see my reasoning. I think that is why Christians must be married not only in secret or between God and the parties involved, but also in public as a covenant with other Christians.

Neat perspectives Jason and Sam. I appreciate them. I understand where both of you are coming from and can see some Biblical evidence for them.
I guess my biggest problem with the sex before marriage debate comes with the attitude I perceive coming from the church. Whereas symbols are important, and that a wedding in front of…how’d you put it Jason…those who pray for you and support you as a church family is a wonderful thing, I’m not sure it’s a necessity before sex. Ideally, a relationship should come together at the same time. The problem with saying I agree with sex before marriage (which I’ve tried to be very careful about) is that most people see this as “have sex now, think/worry about it later”. If a couple’s physical relationship matures at the same time but not before (which I have strong feelings on), the psychological, social and most importantly spiritual relationships, I believe they are justified.
My wife and I were engaged for two and a half years. Our relationship in all of the latter senses was solid years before we became “one flesh”. Am I happy we waited? sure. Was it necessary? I don’t think so. God knew two years into our relationship we were 2 in 1. Our friends and family knew the same thing. I guess I see a wedding (as opposed to marriage) as a social celebration of that covenant that should happen as soon as all of the aspects of a relationship are ready to be finalized. I agree that one is necessary for the other, it’s just that I see the time table as a little less important.
Does that make sense? I tend to get long winded on posts like this.

hey norb, i know where you’re coming from. my wife and i dated for over six years before we got married. we, and the entire community surrounding us (family, friends, church), knew that we were going to get married. we just needed to wait for a convenient time (when kirstin was just about finished with school) to make that public committment to each other. does that mean we weren’t committed enough before our ceremony to engage in a physical relationship? i don’t think so.

but, having said that, i do think the public symbol of committment is important in that it allows the community around you to hold you accountable to that committment. sexual relationships that don’t have some sort of accountability involved can be destructive.

this probably comes from not having a relationship at this kind of level, but how exactly do you know for sure that this person you’re with is the one you are going to marry? Could someone answer this for me without the you “just know” answer?

I think the danger in saying that something like this is okay is that two (proabably inexperienced) people can easily make the mistake of saying “we’re in love, and we’re going to get married anyway, so why not” even if they are not ready, and really don’t know what love is.

There are so many Biblical references between a human marriage and Christ wedding the church, that I guess I saw it as a faith thing. I love my wife and know she’s the right one for me because I have faith that God meant us to be together. I think this is more than the “You just know” arguement.
We work on building our relationship just as we both work on building our faith. Ever since we told eachother that we love eachother we’ve been working on this (if not earlier). Our marriage was simply a formal proclamation of that effort and our promise to eachother.

Hi all. I guess, to respond to Norbert’s question re: wedding vs. marriage, it seems simple. Perhaps that is me showing my depth. But as I see it, a wedding is a celebration, no different than any other party/gathering, but a marriage is an active relationship between (something and something else-and really, God).
So what makes a wedding. God, person, person, and witnesses. Officiant? <shrug>. A church is anyplace 2 or more are gathered in the name of Jesus. Right? Or do I oversimplify?
The active relationship of marriage can be further defined as a joining of two things into one thing. Again, God is a necessary ingredient in that, so maybe it’s a joining of 3 things into one thing. Dunno.
Thoughts?