catapult magazine

OK, So the Red Sox and Cubs aren’t playing each other in the World Series, so there’s one less condition for the end of the world, but thought I’d see what everyone thinks regarding the end of the world and Israel/Palestine/Arab World.

I wasn’t referring to anyone in this discussion either when speaking of defeatism and cynicism.

I have found that people who are most obsessed with ‘end times’ are usually least interested in discussing the possiblity of peace in the Middle East. Or if they are willing to talk about it, they’re likely to favour Israel, like laryn said.

Grant is using the term ‘end times’ in another way here, I think.

Yeah, I think the way a group defines or interprets the “end times” in Scripture really has alot to do with how they live their lives and what they value. People who think Christ will come to take believers away from the world and let the earth rot away in sin often take an escapist stance on issues like Israel and Palestine. The end times thinking of Acts and many of the NT Epistles and Revelation, however, remind the Jews that the Kingdom of God applies to all peoples, Gentiles…even Palestinians!

Somehow I missed the questions put to me in this strand.

Grant, we are living in the end times. The Olivet discourse in Matthew, where Jesus talks about the end times, falls within the prophetic tradition. Specifically, it addresses two different events simultaneously without really making reference to them explicitly distinct. The two references are to Jesus death (destruction and rebuilding of the temple, namely, his body) and the coming of hte Son of Man. Jesus’ answer, in the genre of prophecy, seems to place a strong bond between Jesus’ resurrection at one point in history and his second coming, at a later point in history. Specifically, because Jesus rose from the dead, his second coming will surely occur. In fact, his second coming is as sure as his resurrection. Certainly the surety of Christ’s second coming offers believers tremendous comfort.

What is necessary to happen before Christ comes again? Should we watch for something in particular? Is this what you meant, Grant, when you wrote:

“Since history finds its deepest origin in the Jewish people, the Jewish situation will most certainly play an important role in the end of history (and it already has).”

Must something happen to the Jewish people in particular before Christ comes again? I don’t think so. All that needs to happen, according to the Bible, is that Christ must finally defeat his enemies. He has already overcome the world, and will come to bring his victory to completion. We really do live in the end times, for Christ has already won victory. Now it is only a matter of time, and that time no one knows. As Christians, therefore, we must live in a constant state of readiness, lest we are caught unaware of the reality of the end.

laryn, I think the phrase “first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” has a chronological and a priority significance. Jews will always be honored, because “salvation is of the Jews.” Incredibly, the messiah was born a Jew, to Jews, in a predominantly Jewish environment. It is no wonder that early Christianity was often mistaken as a radical sect of Judaism. The early Christians were mostly Jewish believers. Paul spends much of his time mediating, as it were, between Jewish and Gentile converts. He wants Gentiles to know that Jews have a special place. They have a rich history with God, and more importantly, the God-man was born to them. As Christians we cannot ignore Jewish history prior to the coming of Christ. After the coming of Christ, Jews retain a special place. Christ came from their family! He is a distant relative, even if they have to trace their family tree all the way back to Jacob, called Israel.

At the same time Paul wants believers to understand that there is no difference with respect to salvation between Jews and Gentiles. Jews cannot claim salvation based on blood.

Also, I reiterate that the Israelite theocracy has been disbanded. Jews may take great pride in their heritage, but they can claim no special consideration in Christian thinking with respect to the end times. With respect to end times and to salvation, Jews stand in the same need as all people now do, the need of Christ.