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Old People

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mrsanniep
Feb 27 2003
07:57 am

That was a flippant title. But I am having serious issues lately dealing with the senior citizens in my life. I struggle with aspects of respecting my elders while watching them take complete advantage of the fact they’re “seniors” and act as though we live in a culture where respect isn’t earned, but bestowed on a person because of their age. They’re crabby, negative, opinionated, emotionally abusive (to a degree), hypocritical and, overall, just pitiful. As they get older, they get worse. And I believe most of their problem is a fear of losing control, of declining in their capabilities and dying. I understand this is a normal fear. However, these are people who would stop talking to me if I dared suggest they lack some faith in this department.

Anyone else dealing with elder respect issues? Can anyone lend me some perspective on this issue? Right now, I’m really tired of that particular generation and their attitude of entitlement (yeah, yeah, I KNOW WWII was a big war … yes, I KNOW you lived through the Depression, yes, yes).

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grant
Feb 27 2003
08:03 am

I just saw a great Simpsons segment where Tom Brokaw is telling a group of aged war veterans that they’re the greatest generation. Homer’s dad decides that they should crash Springfield’s Civil War re-enactment with WWII tanks, but before they leave he says to Brokaw, “When we get back, I expect a foot massage.” Brokaw says “Yes, master” or something like that. I had never seen that one before, but it struck me as very poignant.

My wife and I have talked about how we’d love to respect our elders in the church, but they often say things that make it difficult.

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laurencer
Feb 28 2003
05:03 am

i know where you’re coming from, annie.

a few weeks ago my family had a birthday party for my grandma, who just turned 95. we had the party in the community room at the rest home where she lives.

one woman in particular is a perfect example of the issues you’re dealing with. she came in through the back door, went directly to the food table, and began stuffing things into her pockets and purse. she even took time to put cheese on crackers and wrap them individually in napkins. when someone went to talk to her to see how she knew my grandma, she didn’t know who we were talking about and angrily left.

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mrsanniep
Feb 28 2003
10:32 am

I’m sure we’ve all got our fair share of senior citizen stories. We had a 75th birthday party celebration for both of my grandparents on a riverboat. We claimed our tables and then took turns going to the buffet for our brunch. My grandparents, when it was their turn to hold down the fort, allowed a group of other senior citizens to take our (the grandkids’) seats (despite the fact our stuff was on the table). When we came back, we looked at the imposters, looked at our grandparents and our grandparents just shrugged their shoulders and cast sidelong glances at the interlopers … kind of a “what are you going to do?” thing. My husband, thankfully, went up to the rude senior citizens and informed them that they’d taken our seats. He got a “you snooze, you lose” answer and he told them he was disappointed in their behavior and that they’d ruined our grandparents’ birthday brunch. I’m still peeved at my grandparents for thinking so little of us being there that they allowed some of their fellow senior citizens to take our chairs.

So, anyway, the Bible instructs us to respect our elders. But the Bible also instructs parents not to exasperate their children. So, how much do we put up with and how do you draw a line with these sensitive, often irrational, people?

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Alice
Mar 04 2003
04:11 pm

Okay….have you lived in the snowbird capital of the states? Boy do I have stories about senior citizens in So. FL! But I also have a story about one very special senior who turns 100 tomorrow (3/5). She still lives alone in my neighborhood, goes to church every Sunday, helps fold bulletins every Friday, tells GREAT stories, is humble, kind, and gracious, still visits the library, does all of her own bookwork still, always has a jigsaw puzzle going and delights in life. Her name is Evelyn. The last two years she visited my library on the 100th day of school and talked with the 1st and 2nd graders about what life was like when she was their age…it was beautiful…the children gathered around her during check out time and showed her their books, had her read to them, hugged her.
My own grandparents are long gone as are my own parents now…too soon. I’ve been fortunate in having had gracious older people in my family, but I have experienced the other..often daily here….killing them with kindness sometimes works, ignoring them, and every once in a while saying something when I can’t help myself. Frustation levels run high during ‘season’ in Florida!

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Norbert
Mar 04 2003
04:46 pm

When my Gampa (grandfather) got older he became a bit crankier, not to the extent of some of these stories, mind you. I think the biggest reason for this was simple frustration about what he could no longer do. He realized that he was weak and that slowly his mind was weakening along with his body. This pissed him off as I know it would (perhaps will) me.
I guess that’s understandable.
I loved my Gampa and on the rare occasion that I did see him, I tried to spend “quality” time with him, talking, walking, playing cribbage or chess. It was at those times, when I was doing something that he loved and was still capable of doing that he was happiest. Anne, do you remember Dalton Hille from Calvin CRC? He was one another older guy who could be a bit mean unless you spent time doing what he could/wanted to do.
I have the feeling that many older people are cranky because they’re frustrated. Their frustration gets heightened because people don’t want to be near them when they’re cranky. Many people don’t like to be around old people simply because they’re old. It gets them down. Luckily, many older people that I know never got to that point.

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mrsanniep
Mar 05 2003
03:49 am

Norb – I vaguely remember Dalton Hille.

I know old people are frustrated at not being able to do what they used to be able to do. I know they still “feel young.” But there’s something to be said about growing old gracefully – and I think our society lets senior citizens get away with fulfilling the negative stereotype. Is it an obligation as a Christian to a) grow old gracefully and b) help others grow old gracefully? If so, what does that entail exactly? If I could help my grandparents have better attiudes, I would. I just don’t know how.

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Alice
Mar 05 2003
04:51 pm

Mrsanneip…I’m wondering if growing old gracefully has to do with living grace-fully in the first place? I think there’s some real old fashioned selfishness and pride involved.
I wonder what community or lack thereof, our separate/individualistic society, the western worlds lack of esteem for the elderly and yet the whole entitlement thing have to do with it all? Aren’t those last two kind of held in tension with one another? Have we given senior citizens fiscal, medical, discounted services etc. as a cheap replacement for family and community that many societies and even cultural groups still have in place?
Yes, I do think we have an obligation to help them but will they let us? On the other hand I think they have an obligation to us and to our children to connect, support, model family, teach, etc. Does the lure of retirementland, playing, and collecting on what they ‘deserve’ keep both things from happening? Is it fallout from our very mobile and wealthy culture? Have we bought into entitlement as a society and lost something precious? Have we abandoned them or did they abandon us?
In a neighboring county to us in Iowa were Amish/Mennonite communities with their grossfater/grossmuter houses attached or next door to the main house..built when the son or daughter married and moved into the big house. That always appealed to me….if I belonged to a different family!
I hope I’m making some sense…it’s late and my brain is mush.

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cvk
Mar 05 2003
05:03 pm

I think growing old gracefully is something we would all really like to do but I don’t think it is something we all will be able to do. Growing old is hard and terrible.
We live in a neighborhood that is being changed over from the origianal owners of these homes to younger families. It is a very close neighborhood and we visit over the fences and across the lanes and roads often. We have watched many of our neighbors grow feeble and have to move out of their homes. Our nighbors across the street built the house they still live in in 1949.He is a former NHL player and would tell the stories of his hockey days over and over and over and over……. If you get the point but it was so genuine. He also taught the kids slapshots when they played street hockey. And he is just one of the wonderful older people we have had the pleasure of being neighbors to for the past 13 years. There are some less friendly and some down right onrnery but as i watch them grow older I see how frustrating it must be. There is physical pain and the mental pain of losing friend after friend and feeling yourself lose stregth and often dignity. You may say that our society caters to or lets older people be cranky but I think mostly our society ignores them. Doesn’t want to see them adn that alone would tick me off.
We can’t very well decide we have to change the attitudes of the whole generation. That’s like saying we have to make junor high students be less surly. Not a fair generalization. So yeah, there are cranky and miserable seniors but I’ve met some pretty miserable 20 year olds, 30 year old etc. No matter what, we have to treat them like the images of God they are. If they are rude, ignore them or politely tell them. If they are wonderful – enjoy them. I feel a little uncomforatble with the whole label thing. As much as possible I think we should just let peopel be people.

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dan
Mar 05 2003
06:55 pm

As an aspiring historian, I’ll bring in a historical perspective. If we were still illiterate peasants living in feudal, non-democratic society, we would still be respecting our elders. Literacy and industrialization (and a few other things) are responsible for the collapse of respect for elders. The harsh reality today is that we don’t believe our elders have much to teach us. Their moral schemes are often based on an outdated reality, they don’t know how to use the internet, and most importantly, they can’t help us program the VCR. They knowledge they’ve accumulated over their lifetime is worth less than the knowledge of a 14 year old kid who has mastered his nintendo games and knows how to find stuff on the internet.

Then there is the other issue of living longer and longer. When the average lifespan was 40, you would just barely have enough time to marry, have children, and hopefully be able to pass along the knowledge of your trade so your offspring can survive. Our world don’t resemble that one at all. So does it even make sense to beat ourselves up about not respecting our elders when that idea comes from a pre-industrial, non-fossil-fuel era? Wouldn’t it be better just to take individuals for who they are? Some people get wiser as they age. Some people get more annoying and dumber. I, for one, am not going to beat myself up for not holding an immature, complaining 70-year-old in high esteem; but I love to be in the presence of my mysterious and wise 60-year-old Russian history prof.

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Adam
Mar 11 2003
01:06 am

We’re also dealing with completely different issues than they were. While they were struggling with modernism and all that entails, we’re already in the thick of postmodernism, with its internet, Ecstasy, and weapons of mass destruction. They had to fight their own battles. The tough issues for them, especially in Christian circles, are ones we take for granted now. The CRC, for example, used to think not that long ago that movies were the antichrist. Sounds silly, but it wasn’t then. The battles of the mind continue for every generation, and just because our grandparents are too tired and “set in their ways” to tackle our issues doesn’t mean they’re not worthy of our respect. When we’re old, we’ll be exactly the same way. That’s the way it’s always been. Ask anyone on the cusp of a new age bracket: things change in ways that you can’t really explain until you’ve been there. I don’t know what those things are, but I’m not going to be so intellectually arrogant as to think I can categorize someone who’s lived 3 times as long as I have after having only spoken with them once.

It’s easy to throw out examples of the time when that old crazy guy stole your cheese. As a rule, I think older folks deserve more respect than they’re getting. I already have trouble talking to 13-year-olds, even though I was one just ten years ago. But just because they can’t understand me and I have trouble understanding them doesn’t mean I have nothing to teach them.

Old age should be like a title. If a man is a doctor or a general, we naturally give him more respect, because chances are: he’s earned it. If he’s a jerk or arrogant or tempermental, then we no longer respect him, but we still treat him with dignity and generally keep our negative comments to ourselves because of his clout. That’s how old age ought to be.

On a sidenote: A rather intelligent friend of mine named Dirk (who is 38) tells me that, in his opinion, the current generation of fiftysomethings are going to change the way we think about aging, because they’re such a large group and one that’s always made a bit of a stir. He thinks they’re not going to allow themselves to be packed away into nursing homes and relegated to the dusty shelves of society. Time will tell.