catapult magazine

From today’s “slices” over at relevant mag:
“According to a recent survey by Ellison Research of Phoenix, the majority of pastors are not upbeat about the future of Christianity in America.”

Here is the actual link to the study:
http://www.ellisonresearch.com/ERPS%20II/Release%204%20Future.htm

The thing that is interesting to about this to me is that this isn’t the first time that any of us have heard Christianity is going down hill. I heard a telling statement a few months ago that I don’t know if I believe (but it is scary):

Christianity in America will be dead within the next 10 years if things keep going as they are now.
(paraphrase from a speech by Dr. John Mark Reynold, Biola U.)

So my question:
Can Christianity die in America?
Will Christianity die in America?

I read another study from George Barna’s latest…he says that American “Evangelical” Christians only compose 5% of the population…and that number is decreasing.

I want to be a part of what makes Chrsitianity thrive again in America. That’s why we have places like *cino.

but will it be enough?

And I agree that there is a correlation between being a rich nation and not having as much Christian fervor. The rich nation has chosen money as a God-substitute.

I don’t think monetary wealth and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but there is a tendency to think money can serve all one’s needs when you’re rich and living “the good life”(even this phrase shows how we’ve skewed the original idea of goodness). Poor people often fall to the lie that they’ll be better off when they’re rich. But many poor and suffering people know the fleetingness of the power of money and the true power of faith.

Merry Christmas everybody!

Grant, I’m not sure what your beef is with the statisticians doing this particular survey. Do you think they’re asking the wrong question? I know the link to the article stopped working after one day, but the point was not that religion is dying. The point was that poor nations are more religious than rich ones. Except America, which was skewed to the religious side and poor communist countries like Vietnam, which are skewed to the non-religious side.

Also, I don’t get the impression that there is a divide in the USA between rich non-religious people and poor religious. In my experience, religion cuts across all socio-economic levels in the US. I’m no expert on the matter though — anybody else have a different impression?

Also, I’m not convinced that poor people are more religious due to the fact that they understand the emptiness inherent in material wealth. That would suggest that they made the decision to be poor. In fact, many conversions to Christianity in poor countries occur precisely because Christianity promises to lift them out of their present condition. We need some of those evil statisticians to do a poll on this one, but my impression is that “health and wealth” preaching is at the forefront of Christianity’s growth in Latin American and Africa. In my encounters with poor people, I don’t remember very many who were happy about being poor. Most will do just about anything to rid themselves of this “blessing,” religeous or not.

o.k.,well I’m not saying that poor people are more or less religious. it’s the idea of more or less religiousness that I don’t like—such is often the kind of thinking of statisticians, though there is a place for the PEW study. trusting statistics as truth (and i’m not referring specifically to the link you provided, dan, but to science in general) is in itself a religious activity, an activity of faith, so what makes science the best judge of the state of religion?

In eighteenth century Europe, everyone was sure the population of each country was on a sharp decline. Many books and tracts were written to try to explain the decline and reverse the trend. In fact, the populations of western Europe were exploding. If it weren’t for statisticians and other scientists we’d be in the same boat today. If churches in my town are growing, I would assume the same is happening everywhere, which may or may not be true. Statistics help us to understand the big picture. We can find out what percentage of people consider themselves Christian Reformed, but we can’t find out what percentage loves their neighbour as themselves. What science can’t do in this case is judge the kind of religion, or fervor, or fruits resulting from religion. There are limits, but in a crude sort of way, I think science can help us understand the state of religion.

Which is why I said that the statistic has its place. 100% agreement on that point. But do you see what I’m getting at when I talk of the limitations of statistics as measurements of faith? Statistics only give a narrow view of the state of things and skew our view of reality (for lack of a better word). But it is a religious value judgement to say that statistics give more of the big picture. Even in your example of the town, there seems to be a preference toward statistics as the enlightening force for the townfolk who think all churches must be growing. Why is statistical evidence more true than the experience of the townfolk?

We like to quatify things so that our brains can understand. We’re not used to thinking about or seeing the world through spiritual eyes. Although our primary focus should be God’s glory, we like numbers to quantify our service to God.

eg. We had 10 new families from the neighborhood come to our Christmas pageant. or
20 people came up at the altar call or
CCM is the fastest growing music style in America.

It is odd that we look to science and statistics, in a sense, to boost our faith in God. Is it possible, though, that statistics can be used to glorify God also?

Our high school has a projected enrollment dip for next year. Theoretically that could nmean that we could have to cut staff. I think it is important to plan for such a thing. To do what we can to take action to prevent it. But it occured to me yesterday, just as i was about to worry about the whole thing, that it isn’t my school, it is God’s school. If he wants to use it, he’ll use it. If he has other plans, hey, it’s not like I am going to stop him.

I think when we talk about the death of the church, in the back of our minds, we are thinking that we have to do something to stop it. To be sure, God has tasks for us, but make no mistake — it is his church. He’ll take care of it. All we have to do with be a vital part of the church and larger community that we are in out of gratitude for all he does for us.

Um. Not that i am trying to kill this thread. ahem. um…

Well, carry on then.

A friend of mine just told me about an evangelical Christian youth get together where there was a draw for a new car included with other praise band, preaching, and moshing activities. The idea was to get as many non-Christian kids to come as possible. What god were they gonna worship?

I was thinkin we should get Miller High Life to sponser our next church service. Free communion beer. And why not a litergical strip-tease for the offeratory. That’d bring some folks to the alter.

ha ha ha ha ha!