catapult magazine

Cuba:

We already can’t buy good cigars here anymore. What more do you want? How much more must we sacrifice??

Thank you, God, for Grant and his political wisdom.

What’s up with all this ‘Iraq isn’t cooperating’ rhetoric? Every day the inspectors motor out to some unexpected location and tear the place apart. They are not being stopped.

grant and mrsanniep are using Bush’s definition of cooperation which is not the same as that of the United Nation’s. Bush says Iraq isn’t cooperating because they haven’t disarmed. The United Nations requires evidence of guilt. As unlikely as it seems that Iraq has truly destroyed all its bad weapons and production facilities, we must assume innocence. I know mrsanniep is going to want to nail me on this point, but no matter how horrible the crime, innocence must be presumed and evidence must be produced. Certainly there is a possibility that Iraq is cooperating, if for no other reason than to make the US look bad.

mrsanniep, I don’t trust Bush or Hussein, though I trust Bush more. My point was never that I trust Hussein. I just see him winning the war for the sympathy of the world. He is succeeding in being seen as the underdog while Bush is seen as the pouting world bully.

I just want to comment on this statement you made:
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Totalitarian dictatorships are not prone to respecting the rules of the international order and forswearing weapons. Totalitarian dictatorships thrive on lies and force.
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Insert “American democracy” for “totalitarian dictatorships” and the statement is just as true. Bush has no respect for the international order or forswearing weapons either. In fact this administration has pulled out of several military treaties which were seen as the stabilizers of the international order. And now we see a complete disregard for the integrity of the United Nations. American democracy also ‘thrives on lies and force’. The biggest lie is that the war on Iraq has anything to whatsoever to do with terrorism or 9-11.

Now, I think living in the US is a hell of a lot better than living in Iraq, but most people who know something about the history of 20th century American foreign policy know that it’s not a story of good (America) vs. evil (everyone else). Just as often it’s the other way around. And often the good/evil epitaph is a matter of perception.

The invasion of Iraq could be perceived as good or evil, depending on what leads up to it and who is involved. It will be perceived as evil unless Americans are willing to wait for (or make public) the evidence.

where’s my cheering section? trcdkk, can i have a pat on the back?

oh my word, dan, i love you, but count me in the “relatively ignorant and confused” section on the war.

i can’t believe you had the nerve to drag my name in here, but i forgive you.

now, carry on. the tension and drama is almost as good as…uh…a really good reality series on politics.

Thanks triciadk, I’ll consider that a blanket endorsement of my position :)

Interesting article summing up the world response to Rumsfeld’s diplomatic ineptitude (as I see it):

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20030123/wiraq0123/Front/homeBN/breakingnews

Dan, I’ll give you a pat on the back. Someone should definitely weigh in either on Dan’s side or with a completely new viewpoint.

2 Timothy 2:4 “No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs- he wants to please his commanding officer”. Returning your salute, mrsanniep.

There’s my out-of-context scripture reference for the day.

Dan, you claimed that the US is responsible for just as much evil as good in the last century. Can you give me another country that has done more good than the US in the last 100 yrs.? Another country that has given more aid, more missionaries, more money, more military protection and stood up more for human rights than the US.?

Also, what role does the UN really play in the world today? Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the UN a few years ago vote the US off the Human Rights committee and install Libya and Sudan instead?
The fact is, America is not equal to other countries. We are THE superpower. Admit it. Don’t feel guilty about it. Yes, it’s a responsibility, but let’s not kid ourselves about needing to cowtow to the Djiboutis of the world. The fact is, the other nations in the UN are jealous of us.

Yes, America consumes a vast amount of the world’s resources, but we also do a lot of things that the rest of the world doesn’t want to or simply can’t do. We give medical and financial aid to struggling economies. We have troops and foreign aid workers around the world to help reconstruct countries.

As the superpower we have the obligation to help struggling countries and the responsibility of keeping world order.

This does not sit well with the pacifist or intellectual because by declaring war, you are saying that you are morally right and the other country is morally wrong and as the morally right country, you are going to protect the world from the evil spread by the morally wrong country. It’s much easier to just say “everything’s relative- who are we to tell another country what to do when we do so many bad things?”. Then you can excuse yourself from making the tough decisions because after all, it’s all the same anyway.

Hear, hear, Jason.

Psst! It’s spelled “kowtow.” :)

Thanks for the pat on the back and the comments, Jason. Sure the US has done good in the world. No denying that. But the US has done lots of bad too. No denying that either. The Gulf War is a good example of both.

Let’s go back twenty years ago when the CIA suppored the coup that brought Saddam Hussein to power. Then in the eighties the US supported Iraq in its war against Iran in which one million people died. But Americans should be proud of their large leadership and military role in kicking the Iraqi invaders out of Kuwait twelve years ago.

Then there’s the bad part too: Bush Senior called on Iraqi Kurds and Shi’a Muslims to rise up against Hussein. They did, assuming the US would support them. The US pulled out and the rebellions were crushed. Hussein had 300,000 rounded up and killed. Is it any surprise that these potential allies within Iraq hate America as much as Hussein now? It’s not really so hard to understand.

In your mind, Jason, it may look like America is good and right, but most of the world doesn’t see it that way. Is it relativistic to be realistic?

The only point I’m trying to make is that it’s in America’s best interest to make friends, not to make enemies. If this war will further isolate America from its friends, what is to be gained?

Dan, you make some good points. However, along the lines of what Jason was saying – what’s the point of worrying about making friends when the U.S. is the superpower? We’re in the driver’s seat.

Um, not to be an arrogant American. Really. When in Europe, you can’t tell me from a Dutchwoman. I’m that cool.