catapult magazine

I don’t know what all you film nuts think about Michael Moore, but i just saw his new film, “Bowling for Columbine”, which is an interesting exploration of guns, crime, gun laws, fear, violence, America, and the NRA. Anybody else seen it? What did ya’ll think?

The fact that he delcares the facility that actually builds rockets for TV satellite positioning as a plant manufacturing weapons of mass destruction is one. The fact that several of his interviewees were actually staged and scripted actors/actresses is another.

The Academy requirements that were not followed are merely a technical mishap which would easily be forgiveable.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Not entirely correct. Go browse their website: http://www.ast.lmco.com/. The plant in littleton does a lot of sattelite and communications satellites, but according to their website, they contribute to several ballistic missile projects as well.
See http://www.ast.lmco.com/launch_mslsFacts.shtml and http://www.ast.lmco.com/launch_athenaFacts.shtml . These projects may not necessarily build ballistic missiles, but they are building systems for deploying ballistic missiles, which is a pretty small distinction in my mind. Yes, perhaps it was a bit misleading, but not necessarily an untruth.

I’d like to see proof for this. Is there any besides a throwaway quote in a worldnetdaily article?

Whether or not he mislead viewers regarding the facility, I’m not sure it damages his main argument, if I’ve understood him correctly. Moore wanted to spark national debate about why Americans in particular kill so many people with guns. According to his documentary, statistics show that one year many countries killed only in the hundreds with handguns, some less than one hundred (Canada), but that year Americans killed 11,127 with handguns. That’s a staggering statistic. He wants to know why.

Media blamed Columbine on guns or Marilyn Manson, but for not other reason than that they used guns and listened to Manson. With tongue in cheek he asks: why not blame it on bowling, afterall that’s what they were doing right before going on the shooting spree. On a more serious level he asks why we don’t blame it on America’s use of weapons of mass destruction. Doesn’t the president have more influence than Marilyn Manson? Moore claims that Lockheed Martin is the world’s largest producer of WMD, and that’s why he notes them. He wanted to connect America’s high gun kill statistic with America’s use of WMD. He was looking for a context for his qestions, and in Lockheed Martin, the number one employer in Littleton, he found one.

As to Bowling for Columbine itself, I didn’t think his argument was convincing. Even his quest for an answer was restricted by one of his basic assumptions, that man is basically good (see extra features on the DVD). He looks for causes in the environment rather than within humans. The talk of personal responsibility is rather meager, even though Moore is a devout Roman Catholic who believes in sin.

He did however make me wonder at America’s high statistic regarding gun kills. I am at a loss to explain this phenomenon. Any thoughts?

Um, excuse me Jonner. The link I posted below was not from Worldnetdaily, but from an independent group found via a quick search on the internet.

And whilst this may be hearsay and not much to some, the word in Hollywood is pretty anti-Moore. Most of the community that I have have spoken to (from all studios) are fairly shocked and outraged by the discoveries taking place and are asking for an explanation…which Moore seems reluctant to give.

Many here agree with his message, but are quite upset in the way that it was delivered…especially under the guise of a documentary.

According to the website that you gave Jonner, it appears that the only missle systems that are created at this facility are defensive/non war head systems. They are more focused on laser technology and satellite tracking systems (as well as TV and broadcast satellites). It should also be noted that in no place on the website do they offer even a suggestion of developing offensive weaponry.

I am not. however, disputing that these places exist. Of course they do. I am outrages that Moore lied to his viewers about THIS PARTICULAR facility and made this a basis for his argument. If that is what he wanted…he should have found another way to tie the two together. It may have taken more leg work, but at least it would have been ethically correct.

One more site for you to sift through…http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

Its a shame that Moore twisted acuracy so much to tell his story. I’m not sure about the bowlingforthetruth.com website though. It seems just as agenda driven as the film itself. This is evident in the way he missunderstands the Marylin Manson interview. His comment on Manson’s name is evidence of his ignorance. He also doesn’t seem to understand that Manson is talking more about the media than geo-political strategy.

I thought Moore’s view of Canadians was pretty funny though. Being a Canadian I know most of us lock our doors. At the same time, Canadians are definitely less paranoid. As far as the nationalized healthcare system, it has its good and bad points. I would choose it over the american system any day but the stories about waiting lists and line ups are all true. Thats a whole nother debate though.

I still don’t think we should throw Moore’s work away though. Its not just entertainment. Even if the facts are wrong there is truth in the story.

I was referring to the WorldnetDaily article that you posted in its entirety in this thread. I was under the impression that this is where you got the claim about Moore using actors and scripting scenes instead of interviewing real people. But reading through it again, i don’t see anything there about that. Perhaps I simply read it too quickly. You made the claim, i was merely asking for some verification of the claim. It seems to me that this is the most serious claim against moore and if it’s true, then I’d like to see some proof.

I admit that Moore was somewhat misleading about the Lockheed Martin factory, though i’d suggest that he was no more misleading than those people claiming that the factory only made “rockets that carry TV satellites into space”. They don’t. They contract with the air force. They create weapons. Possibly mostly defensive weapons, but they do have projects which involve launching ballistic missiles and they do have projects which make use of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles from the air force (Minuteman II). Perhaps these projects are defensive in nature as well, I have no way of knowing what these projects are ultimately for.